Esther Nam

One of the seven PyLadies founders

Los Angeles, 2011. A Django meetup. Four women look around the room and notice they are the only women in it.

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Georgi: So talking about like the very, very, first PyLadies that a lot of people were like well who are they? These people you know how did it actually get started? For you at least? Because there are seven of you.

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Esther:

So it was a long time ago, so I might get some of the details wrong, but a few of us met at a Django LA meetup. There was a big LA Django meetup going on at the time. And I think there were four of us who were at that Django meetup. And we noticed there were a lot of people at this meetup, but we were the only women. And we were like, this is…

This is kind of a problem, isn’t it? Maybe we should try and do something about it. So that’s how it started, was just deciding to meet up separately after this Django meetup and figure out, what are some things we could do? Maybe we could put on a workshop to teach people how to use Python. And so we put out a call, and a couple of other women answered the call. So we had a couple meetings to prepare this initial workshop to learn Python the hard way. If you remember that book by Zed Shaw (Learn Python the Hard Way) So yeah, we ran that workshop and a bunch of people signed up and that’s basically how the whole thing started.

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Georgi: Right, so you mentioned like a bunch of people coming and what type of people did you expect to join?

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Esther: I don’t know that we had any specific expectations. Yeah, because it was the first time we’d done something like this. And, you know, we reached out to what community we had at the time, you know, the people we knew. So I think one thing honestly I was surprised by was how many men showed up.

But to learn Python as well because we were trying to be inclusive. And I think we had this setup where if you were a man, you could join, but only if you came as a guest of a woman. So we wanted to make sure that the ratio was still kind of balanced.

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Georgi: So they have to get someone who is a woman to invite them. That’s great. That’s cool.

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Esther:

Yeah, exactly. And there was still a good number of them. So that was honestly surprising, but it was totally fine. And I think everyone had a good time. And people asked if we were going to do this again. And then we had to say yes.

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Georgi: So along the way when you folks were running the chapter, In your point of view, what was like the hardest part running the chapter that people don’t talk about? They only talk about the successes, a lot of them, you know?

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Esther:

Yeah, I think, you know, one thing about any kind of organizing, a group like this is just, as you say, to sustain it, right? And what that means is you have to constantly think about the next event, like just because you finished an event and even if it went well, you know, people will always ask, when’s the next one? And now you’ve got to think about like, okay, well, do we have a place where we can host the next event?

Who’s going to, you know,do the work of announcing the event and spreading the word and then like, we going to have to provide food for this event? Well, are we going to have a sponsor who can help us, know, pay the costs of putting on the event or do we have to apply for some kind of grant or whatever? And, know, not if you’re not an official nonprofit or anything that is harder.

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Georgi: So when do you think like the moment when all of you suddenly realized that PyLadies was actually working?

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Esther: I don’t know, I can’t speak for the others, but I think for me, the moment I realized this could be kind of a thing was at the first PyCon that I went to. Think it was PyCon 2012 where, you know, we decided to have a booth. It was, at the conference.

Wait, sorry, I might not be getting that right.

No, no, it was before that. Yeah, I’m forgetting one thing. You remember how I said we met at a Django meetup? Django, DjangoCon was later in that year. And like, I was not a professional developer at the time, I was kind of just freelancing. And I had joined the Django community because like I was learning Django and like the people were super friendly.

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Georgi: Yep

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Esther: And then, you know, PyLadies thing happened. Well, somebody decided that I should attend DjangoCon, and they decided to help raise funds to send me there. And the amount of response that the community delivered to get me the funds to attend DjangoCon, like, that astounded me. I was like, who are these strangers who are, like, you know, supporting me to fly to, I think it was to Portland?

To go to my very first tech conference. Even there, you know, anyone I met who like knew I was a Pylady, were like, “Oh, Pyladies! That’s so great!” Like, there was just a lot of support for the group, even from people who like, you know, I recognize their names from like documentation I read on the internet, or like, you know, you know, it was just, I was like, oh, this is really starting to gain traction. And then, yeah, at PyCon, was even…

It was even more, right, because PyCon is just a big conference. And so just the amount of goodwill that we felt just being a PyLady and having people come up and say, how can I start a PyLady’s group in my city? Yeah, I think that really showed that there was kind of a need for this.

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Georgi: Yeah right. I heard you started off like being a film archivist?

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Esther: Yeah, so I was a film archivist by day and then I was freelancing doing web development. That was why I learned Python and that’s why I learned it.

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Georgi: Was that how you started Python?

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Esther: Well, I think what it helped me do was sort of build up a portfolio on GitHub enough that that kind of helped me get my first professional job as a developer. You know, as a junior, I signed on because somebody saw my code and they were like, she actually might know what she’s doing.

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Georgi: So, I know I met you at the PyLadies lunch at PyConUS and you saw the number of people attending the PyLadies lunch and the number of chapters that’s going around the world. How do feel now that what you started at the beginning grew so large?

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Esther: Yeah, I mean, it was definitely pretty surprising how PyLadies exploded basically all over the world. And I think I’m extremely proud that I was part of that spark, you know, that started it all. And that’s something that I’ll always be a part of PyLadies for that reason. And yeah, I think it’s really great that like even if the original organizers are not actively, officially PyLadies, I don’t think like I’m not organizing PyLadies for my city. I’m organizing a different group. But just there are so many groups now that I don’t think PyLadies will ever stop. So that’s pretty amazing.

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Georgi: Yeah, that’s true. And well, it seems because you mentioned like at the very beginning the reason why you folks started the PyLadies, right? So do you think there is still this kind of like inequalities right now because it’s been so many years?

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Esther: I think so. Unfortunately, there was a time, I think even when we started PyLadies, there were a lot of other programming language communities that had their own groups and they were starting up. And I was a part of multiple women in tech groups and we all have sort of similar goals for trying to increase the percentage of women in the field, increase interest and increase the visibility of women.

I do think that maybe there were a couple of years of a slight swing of the pendulum going maybe the other way. And I don’t know if it’s going to swing back or if it already has. I haven’t kept close track, but I do still notice, you know, for example, in my company where I work, which is the tech company, women are still, you know, pretty underrepresented. So I think we still have some room for improvement.

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Georgi: And do you think there is anything that the PyLadies could do to help resolve this?

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Esther: That’s a really deep question. It’s hard for me to say because I haven’t been super involved recently in PyLadies work. I do still see the groups at PyCon, of course. I keep track of, you know, I’m still on the PyLadies Slack, so I can sort of keep an eye on what groups are doing.

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Georgi: Well, it’s just for probably the other people who are like leading their chapters, you know?

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Esther: Okay. I guess, you know, something that I’ve noticed even as an organizer of StillCal Python is there are so many people who use Python but like don’t join the meetup groups, you know, for whatever reason. There’s a lot of people, I think they underestimate how much Python is used in the wider tech community.

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Georgi Mm-hmm. That’s true. That’s true.

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Esther: So there might be people who use Python and are passionate about programming, but maybe they just haven’t found a group, a community like that. And I think one thing that’s great about PyLadies is it’s special kind of group that I think stands out for the things that represents, inclusivity, diversity. And just support for each other. So I don’t know that I can recommend or just do anything. I think they’re already doing really great work, especially internationally.

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Georgi: Yeah, that’s true. I think in every chapter, what’s beautiful is that they have their own culture, they have their own style and the way they led each chapter, which is really interesting to see. And the more I talk to more PyLadies chapter founders, the more I discover each time, which was why I started this PyBabies movement. it’s like… It shows the cuteness of the babies but actually to draw attention that people can actually know the story behind each chapter, each Python project. So are you ready for me to just share with you how it looks like the very first PyBaby? Okay let me share the screen and then you will see. There you go.

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Esther: Sure.That’s adorable!

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Georgi: Yes, so this is the very first drawing. It’s not done by AI, so it’s 100 % handdrawn. And it has already been produced.

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Esther: My gosh. That’s awesome.

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Georgi: So you get to receive one of them. The very first copy I’ve only printed 100 of them so it’s really limited edition. So all the founders will get one of this including the zine.

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Esther Nam is one of the seven original co-founders of PyLadies. Film archivist in Hollywood who switched to full-time software development in 2011, the same year she co-founded PyLadies. Majored in Psychology and French Literature in college, but learned how to make websites for fun. She went on to become a senior data engineer and a co-organizer of the SoCal Python user group. Proof that PyLadies was never just for CS graduates.She still lives in Los Angeles. Lola’s name fo the first PyBaby, stands for Los Angeles. It is also, Esther noted, the name of her cat.

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